Senator Barbara Boxer used the equivalent of the Chickenhawk Argument that has been used to shut people up when they offer a cogent argument that cannot be refuted.
SFGate Coverage.
You Tube of Dr. Rice Responding
Here is the best response to the chickenhawk fallacy:
CHICKENHAWKSLet’s shag a few easy fly balls to warm up, shall we?
The Chickenhawk argument goes something like this: anyone who favors military action should not be taken seriously unless they themselves are willing to go and do the actual fighting. This particular piece of work is an anti-war crowd attempt to silence the debate by ruling that the other side is out of bounds for the duration. Like all ad hominem attacks, (argumentum ad hominem means “argument against the person”) it is an act of intellectual surrender. The person who employs an ad hominem attack is admitting they cannot win the debate on merit, and hope to chuck the entire thing out the window by attacking the messenger. This is a logical fallacy of the first order, because the messenger is not the message.
The messenger is not the message. That’s all you need to throw away the entire Chickenhawk response. But why stop there when this one is so much fun?
If you ever see this charge again, you may want to reflect that person’s own logical reasoning in the following fashion: You may not talk about education unless you are willing to become a teacher. You may not discuss poverty unless you yourself are willing to go and form a homeless shelter. How dare you criticize Congress unless you are willing to go out and get elected yourself? Your opinion on a National Health Care System is negated out of hand since you are unwilling to get a medical degree and open a clinic. And as far as your opinions regarding the Democratic Underground or The Huffington Post are concerned, well, you can just keep them to yourself, mister, unless you can produce an advanced degree in Abnormal Psychology and Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Using the internal reasoning behind the Chickenhawk argument means you cannot comment on, speak about or even hold an opinion on any subject that is not part of your paying day job. It is simple-minded and profoundly anti-democratic, which is why it so deeply appeals to those who sling it around the most.
But wait! There’s more!
If you accept the Chickenhawk argument – that only those actually willing to go and fight have a legitimate opinion on the subject of war – then that means that any decision to go to war must rest exclusively in the hands of the military. Is that what this person really wants? To abandon civilian control of the military? That’s the box they have trapped themselves in with this argument. Now to be perfectly honest, I think Robert Heinlein made a very compelling case for just this line of reasoning in Starship Troopers (the book, not the clueless projected travesty). Heinlein said that the only people who should be allowed to vote are those that have served in the military, since only they are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of the state. I don’t agree with that. I think civilian control of the military has been one of the pillars of our nation’s success, and it has withstood the test of both World Wars and Civil ones. But that is the world you are stuck in when you toss that little Chickenhawk grenade.
Finally, if the only legitimate opinion on Iraq, say, is that held by the troops themselves, then they are overwhelmingly in favor of being there and finishing what they started. I recently received an e-mail from an Army major who is heading back for his fourth tour. The Chickenhawk argument, coming from an anti-war commentator, legitimizes only those voices that overwhelmingly contradict the anti-war argument.
5 comments :
You may not talk about education unless you are willing to become a teacher. You may not discuss poverty unless you yourself are willing to go and form a homeless shelter.
The difference, of course, is that Chickenhawks send our sons and daughters to die. We're not talking about "discussions", we're talking about actions, about war, and about death. You can make light of war if you'd like, but I would ask that anyone with the power to send us to die be willing to sacrifice as well. That power lies in political leaders and in opinion makers.
Civilian control of the military is a great idea. However, GWB and Bill Clinton managed studiously to avoid military service, one through family connections and one through academic circles. Bill Clinton committed our air power to protect Kosovo, an intervention that resulted in zero casualties. George W. Bush committed our entire military to a blunder in Iraq that's resulted in over 3,000 soldiers' deaths, over 20,000 severely wounded, and over 500,000 civilian casualties.
I don't doubt that Pres. Bush feels bad sometimes about folks dying, but I'm just as certain that he has no idea what these families really go through.
If he'd served, then maybe he'd have a leg to stand on. However, none of the civilian leaders of our military have an iota of military experience. Dick Cheney managed how many deferments? 6? 7? The list is endless. Here's a sample from my blog:
Dennis Hastert
Dick Armey
Tom Delay
Roy Blunt
Bill Frist
Mitch McConnell
Rick Santorum
Trent Lott
Dick Cheney
John Ashcroft
Jeb Bush
Karl Rove
Newt Gingrich
Phil Gramm
Richard Shelby
Paul Wolfowitz
Richard Perle
Douglas Feith
Rudy Giuliani
Michael Bloomberg
George Pataki
Bill O'Reilly
Bill Bennett
Chris Matthews
George Will
Rush Limbaugh
Michael Savage
Bill Kristol
Sean Hannity
Saxby Chambliss
Reasonable people can disagree on the conduct of this war, but no one can disagree that people with military service are better able to understand the human cost of war than those who were unwilling to devote themselves to service.
The Chickenhawk argument is here to stay, TP, not because "The Left" wants to silence anyone. "The Right" complains that they're being silenced when folks disagree with them. This is nonsense and whining. The Chickenhawk argument is here to stay because our kids are being sent to fight and die by people who don't know what they're asking.
No, the Left uses the "Chickenhawk argument" or any other ad hominem attack where they attack the messenger, and not the message.
That is all you need to know. that is what is so distasteful about the Kooks opposed to this or that...right OR left.
People opposed to Hillary just because she is Hillary aren't gonna win many converts...likewise with the Bush bashers.
Same with the war. Some people are opposed to war, any war, and will conduct ad hominem attacks because they have no intellectual argument to offer...hence "Bush lied, People died."
Hope your meatspace stuff went well.
Ach! Besides, if you apply the Chickenhawk argument to its logical conclusion, then only those who serve in the military should decide...they are overwhelmingly for this fourth world war. Most of them feel as I do, that we are treading too softly.
I guess it'll be worth it if we can topple Iran's leadership and pit them against the Saudis to remove the Wahhabi stronghold on our mosques.
TP,
First - Stop calling it the fourth world war. That makes you sound crazy.
Second - Your assertion that "most of them feel as I do" is conjecture, not fact. The generals against the escalation/surge certainly don't agree with you, and the majority of active duty military who are against escalation don't agree with you.
Third - I am The Left. I know how I make arguments. When I term someone a chickenhawk, it is in the following context:
Wikipedia: "The term is meant to indicate that the person in question is cowardly or hypocritical for personally avoiding combat in the past while advocating that others go to war in the present. Generally, the implication is that "chickenhawks" lack the experience, judgment, or moral standing to make decisions about going to war. Often, there is a further connotation that "chickenhawks" falsely believe that their support for military action is a mark of personal courage analogous to actual combat, thereby demeaning those actually serving while elevating themselves."
First: "Stop" that sounds a bit Stalinist to me? Sounds sorta like KooKoo Kucinich's revamp of the Fairness Doctrine.
Although I would argue that the first world war was fought during the Second Geat Jihad (Ottoman Turks), the EUrocentralists decided "The Great War" qualified as the 1st.
WWI Allies v Central Powers
1914-1918
WWII Allies v Axis Powers
1932-1945
WWIII Ailles v Warsaw Pact
1947-1989
WWIV Coalition Of the Willing v The Third Great Jihad
1979-????
Second:
The Milblogs
The Generals against the escalation /surge are against that particular tactic...not the war. Bush43 should quit tying their hands with all these ridiculous ROEs (Rules Of Engagement), and let our troops fight and we should be looking to topple Ahmadinejad, and probably are since my old friend from Iran/Contra is running DoD.
Also, you need to study up on 4GW and 5GW. From what I can ascertain, Bush43 is counting on everyone to "misunderestimate" him. You Lefties help him by calling him a moron. Anyone who can fly a F-102 Delta Dart is not a moron. BUt, hey that's his shtick, and I admit to using a form of it around Yankees and City Slickers, andd the accent sure does help.
I wasn't talking you. You're one of the few Lefties I respect. You are dead wrong, but you mostly put some thought into your arguments.
I don't have the luxury of time...I even got screwed out of my three months off time this winter. ;.(
George W Bush showed more courage during his F-102 experiences than Algore and John Kerry showed their entire lives.
Did they remove the photo of John Kerry from the wiki chickenhawk article asgain? 4 Months and shooting a teen in the back of the head, and dropping a live grenade don't exactly look good. Then tossing someone else's medals over the White House fence while claiming they were his until years later.
Many of my friends believe that we will have to fight the left in another civil war before we can be freed to destroy the enemies of civilization. I, as a Christian, believe that will not be necessary because our nation will be rendered ineffective on the world stage by a near complete destruction of our infrastructure. Until then, our job is to bring as many souls into the kingdom as possible, protect Israel, and as the oldest government on earth...serve as a shining city on a hill, that is if you lefties don't destroy it with your socialism. And you'll literally have to kill millions of us to do it!!!
Love ya, mean it!
Now, I gotta go watch hour three of 24 I downloaded from iTunes today!!!
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